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Thread: Responses to the 2008 USHA Nationals DVD

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  1. Responses to the 2008 USHA Nationals DVD 
    #1
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    This is in response to a recent posting I just found last night along with a previous thread.

    http://www.foilforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=719
    http://www.foilforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=713

    Not sure where to put my response so I will put it in the board where it all began.

    Some of the feedback got my undies in a bunch and this will help me get them out! Please do not try to visualize, I have seen it and it is not a pretty site! For those who did picture it, I am sorry.

    Thanks for all the good feedback and suggestions.

    I agree with most of the points, especially the music! I would love to have more great music, I asked a few times from the foiling community for some help and luckily Bryan Steele came through with a bunch of GREAT Year of The Moth songs. Amyeeee hooked me up with a song. Even better two foilers Benton and Bobby Earl stepped up with their own music. I am with sheeners on the end of the DVD music me sleepy, but I do have to draw the line. I put in too much time as it is, that is why I asked for some help on the music and a few people came through. THANKS FOR THE MUSIC!!!

    My family and my sanity are more important than pleasing every single person.

    Everyone talks about little things and how easy they are and how they should be there. I agree with most of them. Having the time and budget to ensure we get all of them would be great. Yes I do get paid to do this DVD and I also have a ton of expenses and time into it. This year I have tracked all my time in putting the DVD together. If I take JUST THE TIME AFTER THE EVENT UP UNTIL THE FIRST DVD SHIPS I make at most $5-$6/hr. This does not include the time prior to the event and the time of 4 people taking photos and video at the event.

    To get the DVD out ASAP I gave up ALMOST ALL MY FREE TIME for a month after the competition. This for $5-$6 an hour, pretty tough to justify doing it. This DVD is not supposed to be a TV quality production. As a matter of fact it is not even required to be done to the extent which it was done. This is not a dig on RMHC or Xtreme Foils, I do it for the sport and am grateful that they do compensate me.

    As far as counting clips of people... Oh my... Once again I attempted to do a good job on this. Maybe I missed a few or maybe some people counting missed a few. I did start out with the same number of clips for each rider in each division and then filled the extra space with additional clips. I tried and made a big point of ensuring everyone had some clips and also tried to get most people to have around the same number in each division. I am pretty happy with the results. Way more amount of extra time to do this.

    The boat spray, I hate it!!! The video crew is not the only ones in the boat who need to see, there are other cameras and judges there too. It is not realistic for them to move all over the boat. If the whole event was about the DVD then maybe so. They did try sitting and standing depending on where the rider was worked great for one side of the boat then the tower would get in the way if they avoided the spray. Those big boats loaded down with people are not good for footage. I would love a smaller boat or a tower setup that would not get in the way. How about that tower from TX with the chairs in it.

    Yes lots of things could be better and I do believe they have improved each year.

    So for those who like it, we thank you. Remember this is not ESPN or Fuel doing the DVD like other sports get with 10's of thousands in budget. It is a few foilers putting something together for you to get for free or at a minimal cost delivered. This is just an added FREE benefit RMHC and Xtreme Foils give to you. The tournament is about the competition and getting together with foilers, it is not just about the DVD.

    The RMHC and Xtreme Foils did a great job of putting on a killer event and still having enough cash to give out a FREE DVD.

    Also for those complaining about the photos which make it into the The Waterskier articles present and past, neither myself or any foiler has any input into it. They were selected from the same galleries you have been viewing on www.greatlakes-photo.com by the editor of the magazine. I learned which photos made it by looking at the same pdf as everyone else.

    Thanks everyone for the compliments and if a DVD is done again we am sure a few things will get better but some will always complain.

    We do our best to put out a high quality DVD of the event for minimal expense to the RMHC & Xtreme foils and in a short period of time. We in no way tried to slight anyone or any group in the production of the DVD. We understand that we are not going to make 100% of the people happy with the end product. To this end, we ALWAYS ask for input from the hydrofoiling community and with that input we put out a very good product. Doing these DVD’s is a way for us to catalog the progression of the sport. You only need to go back and look at the 2000-2004 Worlds Videos to see where the sport has come from. We believe that we have accomplished our objectives in this regard. If you want to have more input into what is finally put out there, get more involved with helping film, produce the DVD and finding Great music. We are always looking for help.
     
     

  2. #2
    Reverse Scorpion Professional
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    I ordered a DVD, but have not seen it yet. When I do get a chance to watch it, I am sure I will be grateful that someone took the time to put it together since it is unlikely that I will ever be able to attend one of these events.
    Btw, if it were up to me to put a DVD together, we would all be watching dudes riding plywood discs........on a 19" black and white TV..............with tin foil wrapped around the rabbit ears antenna.
    Props to everyone involved!
     
     

  3. #3
    Foilforum Addict Jay's Avatar
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    Dan,
    Just remember ONE thing. There are WAAAAAY more people with graditude and appreciation then there are the opposite.

    You did a GREAT job! Thank you.
    Justin
     
     

  4. #4
    Admin - XTREME Foils XtremeFoils's Avatar
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    Amen, Brother!

    I've said it before, and I'll say it again... this is the best quality foiling DVD ever produced to date bar none!

    I personally know what it takes to create something like this. I did the Powell DVD many years ago. That was half the amount of video footage, and it was a very time consuming/life consuming project. Which is why you haven't seen me release another video.

    Constructive criticism is great. All of us need to hear what we can do better to continue this sport. But keep in the back of your minds that everything takes time. None of us make a living at this (well except for maybe a few people at SkySki and AirChair). We all have jobs, families, foiling we would like to do, etc. So offering criticism is great, but if YOU aren't willing to jump in and help out, maybe YOU shouldn't post the message. Give ideas on how to make it better - find musicians willing to donate music - whatever the case may be. I'm sure Dan would be more than happy to have people go through the days worth of video footage and catalog the riders and locations on the tape of the riders to make things easier. It sounds easy enough, until you have 15 full tapes you are trying to sort through. Offer to fly up to Minnesota next year and help out - or be the guy who sits in the boat all day long and video tapes. Many of us judge and know what it's like to give up half a day... but all day long every day would certainly get old!

    So yes, some things were missed, some things could be a little better. But remember how much YOU are paying for this DVD!!!!! If you can do better, I would be willing to bet that Dan would GLADLY let you sit in the boat from sunup to sundown next year and get paid $0 for your service.

    Dan, GREAT job once again! What makes this sport so amazing is that so many people donate so much of their time to progressing it. Think about how far we've come in just the past 5 years!

    Congrats on a job well done!
    Bryan

    Bryan - "Shuey" Foilmacher

    2008/2009 USA Waterski Innovator of the Year!!!

     
     

  5. #5
    Foilforum Addict SaskFoilFreak's Avatar
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    Ditto Bryan. I just wanted to chim in and say 'Thanks!' to everyone involved in making this dvd.
     
     

  6. #6
    Scott
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    Amen Bryan.

    Dan the DVD was great!

    Can we each pick it apart--sure. Is it perfect--no. Is it the best we have--hmmmmm, let me see.... I guess I'll have to see the other DVD's from the event in order to decide. Wait, there are no others!

    Those who have complaints, or even suggestions, ought to volunteer to create next year's DVD or at least contribute where they can. Those who have never actually done all the work to produce a product like this really have NO idea of what is involved. They may offer some good suggestions, but Dan, don't take them personally. After all, there would be no complaints if there were no DVD. So the very fact that you get complaints and suggestions is a compliment to you and your tremendous efforts (and everyone else involved too).

    I was not at the event but know some who were. It has been interesting to see the reactions of some from an independent viewpoint. For those who complain about this free DVD product, put your actions where your words are and sign up to help the end product next year be even better and contribute to the massive undertaking it is to pull off a project like this. Either that or show us what you can do by creating a better product.

    Thanks again to all who helped put this together and make it available to us for free!
     
     

  7. #7
    IP
    Dan- The DVD was great!!! Awesome job!!

    I think the only thing I would like to see more of is combos from Geno, and height from Bradley! Is that possible??
     
     

  8. #8
    Senior Foiler Elite AlisonG's Avatar
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    Video and camera crew:
    Could you do something about those hydrofoilers who make really weird faces when they ride???? Like that Goin gal. SHEESH, what a dork!



    On the more serious side:
    Dan, I was in MN watching you give nearly all your time to the DVD. I was and am impressed with your dedication and heart in this.

    My sincere thanks to you!

    Alison
     
     

  9. #9
    IP
    Jake, there is constructive which I do like and then there is not so constructive.

    I do remember you responding to an email or post when I asked for input last spring or winter. You said behind the scenes footage of people at the event would be great. Both you and Steele asked for that and it made it and is one of my favorite parts of the DVD. Thanks for the suggestion. This was very constructive.

    Sheena's comments GREAT, agree with them all presented in a very constructive manner. Thanks Sheena

    Now Jake, your comments since the release of the DVD...

    As you said, you are a member of a USHA committee, you are a judge and you are a rider. Being married to a board member, judge, and rider I know how much time it takes. Thanks for being involved in the sport, in my book it does give you added weight with your opinion. I believe it also requires you to act appropriatley when representing the sport. I do not believe you do that when behind the keyboard.

    Face to face I have always had nothing but a good experience dealing with you. Your Lazy Pimp is still my favorite trick ever.

    Most of your previous comments were removed by you but I still think about what you said and how you said it. So how I feel is based off of the removed comments as well as what remains. So here are a few of the calmer comments which are left, more constructive than the others which you removed (THANKS) but still not appropriate.

    Two long original postings removed and were replaced with
    "After watching the DVD, I don't feel bad anymore."
    "Not worth the bandwidth"

    Other Recent comments
    "We were thinking the same thing. What I saw was a couple random riders, then Zeke - Lewin - Zeke - Lewin, then some more random riders. (12 clips a piece!) Awesome!"
    "- A GRAND TOTAL OF FIVE (5) clips from shore. This video looked like a collaboration of passenger-filmed clips that could be downloaded off of Foilforum itself, minus the uber-techno music effect that I really luved, omg."

    You quoted me as "'the DVD was done to more of an extent than it should've been.' "
    YOUR RESPONSE
    "Hell ya, cutting 2/3 of the event out should've exceeded expectations... Certainly did mine. Psyche."
    What I said "As a matter of fact it is not even required to be done to the extent which it was done."


    This quote I had to look up! Man, I must be old!
    "OMG, QQ."
    First part figured out I think "Oh My god" second part not even a clue "QQ" Looked it up and it stands for "Cry More Noob" Very constructive.

    Jake it is this crap over and over and over, not just about the DVD but every time you don't like something or don't get your way. That is what gets so old and is what bothers me. If you would have taken the approach that Sheena and probably everyone else will there would be no problem.

    All of this because your run was partially captured by my cameras. I felt horrible about that and still do!

    ADDED THIS Next line 2 hours later

    Jake, I am not looking for you to suck up to me or even compliment the DVD. Just for you to not act the way you are.

    Dan







    Quote Originally Posted by Darth View Post
    OMG, QQ.

    Take constructive criticism for what it is...just that. Or don't take it at all and find yourself with the same problems you have before.

    The DVD was a decent representation of what happened at the event.

    If I could ride, judge, film, photograph, participate on the USHA Comp Team...I would.

    I'll just keep my opinions to myself from now on. Being a rider, judge, and USHA committee member just doesn't justify having an opinion in the matter of making the event DVD more appealing to the extreme-sport mainstream... "wuts dat? why appeal to dem? hydrofoilin' is huge, it dont need more exposure that looks appealin!" Um, yeah.

    Besides, 'the DVD was done to more of an extent than it should've been.' Hell ya, cutting 2/3 of the event out should've exceeded expectations... Certainly did mine. Psyche.


    SHEENA's CONSTRUCTIVE COMMENTS - Thanks again
    ************************************************** ***
    IMO! And this is ONLY my .02!

    - Music started out good....then about half way through I was ready to fall asleep. :/ My personal opinion...(and only my PERSONAL opinion) I want to be pumped up when I watch a video of hydrofoiling. I want to be able to watch a video and get so pumped and want to go out and ride right then! And unfortunatly I didn't this time.

    - Saw ALOT of REPEATS. Several people, crashes and tricks were posted anywhere between 2-6 times. (Yes, I counted) Ex: I know KT's crash was a HUGE deal and We all about crapped our pants and prayed he was ok....but I'm not even sure he would want to review that crash as many times as its on the vid. How about a little more variety?

    - I'm probably the only one that noticed this but at some points in the video when the riders would cut out to do an air trick the spray from the boat was in the way. I know how it is to run a camera with several people in the boat (not that I'm professional or anything but I have 'a little' experience) and its sometimes difficult to avoid the spray but when I come across this situation I change positions in the boat to 'try to help'. ie...sit up higher???

    - The behind the scenes stuff was Good. I liked that. I lol'd a few times. (Can't believe someone trusted Chad with a mic! I'm sure some of that had to be edited.) Showing the after party at Dr. Dave's house and giving some random people the mic was a nice touch. Seeing Bryan Steele talking to Bryan Foilmachuer while he was making sure everything was tighten and tuned before his run was good as well. And having Murphy showing Chef Anton some of his own magic...Classic. But maybe add a few interviews of the riders before or after their run....as they are about to be on dock. Show a little more of what the riders go through to get ready.

    - This year we actually had Great announcers! Let us hear some of their announcing while the competitors are riding. Again my hats off to those guys!

    - And last, different views of the riders. Watching people ride behind the boat is awesome but I think (my personal opinion again) that some of the best pictures and video is from a different angle. ie....from shore, another boat, the scaffold (spelling?) or even the bridge would have given us something different.

    I'm not sure if anyone read this or if anyone cares but everyone is allowed an opinion and this is mine of the 2008 Nationals DVD. I understand that we're not as big as wakeboarding and alot of our events, pictures and videos depend on someone taking the time out of their schedule to put it all together and I appreciate it.

    I didn't compete in this years Nationals but I wish I would've. It was great! The RMHC did an awesome job. Thanks to all that helped and hope to see you next year.
    **************************************************
    Last edited by danjpohl; 09-13-2008 at 09:34 AM.
     
     

  10. Jake 
    #10
    IP
    Thanks, I agree and would love for someone to raise enough money to get that done. I am definetly not the guy to do that, I do not have the time, patients and skills to get it done to that level.

    Is the video the one where he hits the log?

    How do we go about raising enough $$$ to get it done for the next event or for a season? That is what we need to figure out.

    I would also like to see HD!

    Thanks for the pleasent reply, that is more like the jake I hang out with at the tourneys.

    I will gladly help raise money to get a full blown production done.
     
     

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